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that) but whatever formation there was in relation to Catholic Church music was cer tainly of that time.

KP: So you weren't trained at Northwestern to be a Catholic Church musician spec ically, but did they have any training in chant there, or were you completely self-taught?

CS: Not any practical training. Northwestern was a big school for music history and musicological research so the discussion of the chant was from an academic stand point-virtually nothing about its performance.

KP: But when you taught yourself chant did you take any sort of a summer course, or do readings, or listen to recordings?

CS: I did a good deal of reading and consulting with other people who knew quite a bit about it, but I was perhaps a bit of an anomaly amongst "old timey" Catholic church musicians. I never had any formal course work in the chant, which I regret, but that's the case.

KP: Now, was your advanced degree a masters in church music? CS: Yes, Northwestern offered specific degrees in church music-a masters and bachelors. The distinction between that (a masters in church music) and a masters in organ performance was almost non-existent. A few courses were different in the cur riculum but people were encouraged to get the church music degree rather than a straight organ performance degree in the belief that it would help them in getting church jobs.

KP: Does anything like that still exist? It seems to be a current concern of the AGO, and others, that too many organists are trained as organ pe formers and not as practical church mu sicians.

CS: It is a concern of mine as well and my impression is that Northwestern still of fers pretty much the same kind of curriculum. I know things have changed much since I was there, but I still think that it is the Department of Organ and Church Music. It was quite a well-rounded program. You could take all kinds of courses like liturgics, church choir repertoire and hymn-playing, service playing, and improvisation. These were all required courses for that major and if you were a straight organ major you would take some, but not all of these courses.

KP: Now, you are a composer as well. Did this come about as a result offormal study or did it flow naturally rom your knowledge of theory and experience as an organist?

CS: Partly, the church music major at Northwestern required four years of music theory and in the later stages of that there was a great deal of composition of a sort in volved. I did a great deal of improvisation which I studied in college and which is a par ticular interest of mine. But I would say that mainly I write things because when I first started working in church music after the Council there was almost nothing suitable for the vernacular liturgy that I thought worth performing. So I started out with doing lots of responsorial psalms and Introit settings and lots of Mass Ordinaries-purely practi cal things for my own use with the church I directed. Though I knew much music the ory I was a bit of an autodidact in that I learned a lot by writing lots of music as op posed to taking lots of courses in composition.

KP: As you said, you came into the Church at a very interesting time; you caught just the tail end of the pre-Conciliar liturgical "atmosphere," you were in the army for afew years, and then came out to find, in a sense, that everything had changed. Did you have any idea things would change that dramatically?

CS: I think hardly anyone thought things would change that rapidly or, indeed, that dramatically. We were assured in 1962 when everyone was very excited about the

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