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KN:Yes roundabout I’d say after the Treason Trial, the Emergency, he was banned, you know, for periods of five years every time, after five years the banning order would expire. And they used to come back and ban you, so I think for a continued period for about fifteen, sixteen years he was banned.  Banning means that he couldn’t go out from out of the magisterial districts of Durban couldn’t travel out.  So he couldn’t go to places like Port Elizabeth or Johannesburg or anything like that he couldn’t get of Durban itself.  I mean he couldn’t go to Maritzburg also, he couldn’t sit in a gathering.  Gathering means more than three people.  One incident was - when you look back now it’s quite funny - he was having supper with Alan Paton, my mother, himself, and Alan Paton were having supper.  And our house was watched all the time. There was a 24-hour, somebody 24-hours watching them all the time, you know, watching, following him whenever he went to the rooms or anywhere else alone.  So my sister walked in that night, and because my sister was married, she constituted a crowd, I mean a gathering.  So the Special Branch walked in and arrested him.  I think he spent a night in jail but he got a suspended sentence because of that. But this is how they were living all the time, you know.

DS:Did the banning orders affect you as individuals?

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