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that time, but quite frankly I don’t know she managed, you know.  Financially it was quite draining because he had a practice on his own I mean every time he had to go to jail the practice was closed.  So we had no source of income.  And I really don’t know how she managed but she did manage.

DS:So you did your matric in Durban?


DS:Okay in Durban, so by then obviously can you still remember when was that, the year I mean when you were in matric, in high school maybe from standard eight up to standard up to matric, what year was that?

KN:That’s around towards the end of fifties, that’s the time when he was arrested for the Treason, you know, the big Treason Trial, when Mandela and all were arrested this was in 1956, I think.

DS:Fifty Six.

KN:1956 to 1960 - it was about three to four years, and they had to go to Johannesburg, so at that time his practice was closed.  We used to get people helping us, you know, the running of the practice and giving whatever money they got out of it but, you know, it wasn’t - we obviously managed, I don’t know how, I said I don’t know sometimes, I don’t know how we managed that.  And it was quite a trying time because treason - if a person is arrested for treason, you know, the sentence is death, so

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