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this was hanging on us all the time.  So ja that was around 1958 to 1960.  And afterwards in 1960, a State of Emergency was declared, is that correct ja, and he was detained then.  There was something - I don’t know what happened there was during the court case they didn’t get something right and they were released for a few hours or a few days I can’t remember.  But during that period, the Movement you know, the ANC and NIC and the congresses asked him to go underground because they were going to be arrested.  And himself and Mr JN Singh went underground for about five or six-months and you know avoiding the police and they organized the movement in that way.

DS:Okay when you say underground you mean hiding or was it also involving the underground movement?

KN:No it was just hiding.

DS:Okay.

KN:Just hiding, just hiding they you know moving all over South Africa, just driving around.  

DS:Alright.  Okay can you - there was a so-called Doctors' Pact in 1947, the impact of - what was the ideas behind that Pact, can you - maybe your father once told you why he decided to have this Pact?

KN:Ja, this was I think 1947 if I’m not mistaken, is that correct?  Xuma, Naicker and Dadoo Pact. This pact was formed I think basically to get the Indians and Africans to

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